Even with new powers, CSIS says there are limits on its ability to name names

Canada's spy agency says that while it can brief more Canadians than ever before on sensitive information, it still can't share personal information or name names if the person receiving the briefing doesn't have the proper clearance.

That clarification from the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) comes in the middle of a tense debate in Canadian politics over why Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievrehas refused to get the top-level security clearance he would need to view classified documents on foreign interference.

On Wednesday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau toldthe public inquiry investigating foreign election meddling that he's seen classified intelligence indicating Conservative parliamentariansare involved in or vulnerable to foreign interference.

"I have the names of a number of parliamentarians, former parliamentarians and/or candidates in the Conservative Party of Canada who are engaged, or at high risk of, or for whom there is clear intelligence around foreign interference," he said.

WATCH |What is security clearance and how long does it last?

What is security clearance and how long does it last?

2 days ago

Duration 1:04

Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre has resisted going through the security clearance process that would permit him to view intelligence related to foreign interference. Two former CSIS directors speak to CBC's David Cochrane about what the clearance means and how long it lasts.

During his testimony, Trudeau also accused Poilievre of being "irresponsible" by refusing to go through the process to obtain the top-secret security clearance the prime minister said would allow the Conservative leader to be briefed on allegations concerning his party.

"The decision by the leader of the Conservative Party to not get those classified briefings means that nobody in his party not him, nobody in a position of power knows the names of these individuals and can take appropriate action," Trudeau said.

He said it also means no one from the party can speak up for the people in question if the intelligence is "shoddy," incomplete or based on a single source.

WATCH |Trudeau takes aim at India, Poilievre at foreign interference inquiry

Trudeau takes aim at India, Poilievre at foreign interference inquiry

3 days ago

Duration 6:27

Testifying at the Public Inquiry into Foreign Interference, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau attacked Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre over his refusal to get the security clearance required to be briefed. Trudeau also said he has the names of Conservative parliamentarians involved in foreign interference and offered more details about Indias alleged involvement in targeting Canadians.

Poilievre quickly retaliated with a statementaccusing the prime minister of lying and grandstanding.

"Justin Trudeau is doing what he always does: he is lying. He is lying to distract from a Liberal caucus revolt against his leadership and revelations he knowingly allowed Beijing to interfere and help him win two elections," he wrote.

In that statement, the Conservative leader suggested there are other ways for the government to share intelligence with him that don't require him to get asecurity clearance.

Poilievre has said getting the necessary clearance to see those unclassified details would prevent him from questioning or challenging the government on the issue of foreign interference.

New law allows CSIS to brief more Canadians with limits

The CSIS Act allows the government to offer "information to any Canadian about specific risks of foreign interference without forcing them into sworn secrecy or controlling what they say," Poilievre wrote.

Last spring, the House of Commons pushed through, with broad support, the government's legislation tocounterforeign interference, formally known as Bill C-70.

The law now allows CSIS to disclose sensitive information beyond the federal government.

"These new authorities enable CSIS to share information more frequently, aiming to strengthen society's overall resilience against threats," said CSIS spokesperson John Townsend.

But CSIS said there are limits.

"Importantly, these changes include strict limits on disclosing personal information about Canadian citizens, permanent residents, or any individuals in Canada, as well as the names of Canadian entities or corporations, without additional authorizations," said Townsend.

"CSIS welcomes any opportunity to brief elected officials about the threat landscape at any classification that is appropriate."

'Threat reduction measures'

During the inquiry hearing on Wednesday, Conservative Party lawyer Nando De Luca also argued that CSIS could use something called a "threat reduction measure" sometimes called a TRM to inform Poilievre about members of his party who may be compromised by foreign interference.

Townsend said that while CSIS won't discuss specific TRM measures, sharing classified information is something the service would do to mitigate a specific threat to Canada's national security.

"When this threshold is met, CSIS can take specific actions to mitigate the threat," he said.

"Any Threat Reduction Measure (TRM) must be reasonable and proportional, considering the nature of the threat, the actions taken, the availability of other means to address the threat, and the potential impact on third parties, including their privacy rights."

Former CSIS director RichardFadden told CBC News' Power & Politics on Wednesday that threat reduction measures are meant to inform politicians when they themselves may be targets, and wouldn't be used to share classified information with the leader of a party.

"You can't give classified information to people if they don't have security clearances. Can you muck around on the margins and try and get people to think differently? Yes, but that's not what we're talking about," he said.

The Conservative leader said his chief of staff, Ian Todd, has received classified briefings.

"At no time has the government told me or my chief of staff of any current or former Conservative parliamentarian or candidate knowingly participating in foreign interference," Poilievre said in the media statement.

"If Justin Trudeau has evidence to the contrary, he should share it with the public. Now that he has blurted it out in general terms at a commission of inquiry,he should release the facts. But he won't because he is making it up."

Another former CSIS director, Ward Elcock, said CSIS would not brief a chief of staff on foreign interference issues pertaining to individual parliamentarians.

"What could the chief of staff do with the information?" Elcock said. "Mr. Poilievre doesn't have a clearance, so the chief of staff can't tell him the information. And the chief of staff has no power to do anything about the MPs or make decisions about the MPs because he's not the leader of the party."

Trudeau did not elaborate on the allegations concerning Conservative membersin his testimony on Wednesday.

In June, the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP), an intelligence watchdog body made up of MPs and senators who are sworn to secrecy, released an unclassified version of a report it put together on foreign interference in Canada's elections.

That report, based on intelligence the parliamentarians were able to see and hear, said foreign actors from India and the People's Republic of China allegedly interfered in more than one race for the leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada.

Most of the details wereredacted from the report for national security reasons.

Poilievre has faced a growing number of calls to get a security clearance.

WATCH: Singh calls Poilievre's reason for not getting a security clearance 'bogus'

Singh calls Poilievres argument for not getting security clearance a bogus excuse

2 days ago

Duration 2:58

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh says Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievres argument that getting a security clearance would prevent him from speaking out on foreign interference does not carry any weight. Poilievre also said in a media statement Wednesday that his chief of staff has received classified briefings. Singh says Poilievre's statement does not give a lot of confidence that hes taking this seriously.

During a news conference Thursday, NDP Leader Jagmeet Singhsaid"the only reason" Poilievre is reluctant to obtain that information is that he "wants to protect his party above the country."

"It is ludicrous to me that someone who claims to want to be the prime minister of this country doesn't want to know of ongoing and serious threats that impact Canadians," he added.

In a news statement issued Thursday, Green Party Leader Elizabeth May said that "the only way for Canadians to know that the Official Opposition has not been compromised through foreign interference is for its leader to seek and obtain top secret security clearance."

"I have urged him to do so since June 2024. With greater urgency, I urge him to do so now," May added.