Activists, experts say there's still hope for a breakthrough at COP15

Between claims that negotiations are moving far too slowly and a mid-week walkout by a group of developing nations, there are ample reasons to worry that the world won't come to an agreement to protect biodiversity at COP15 in Montreal.

But the scientists, activists and political leaders attending the international conference this week all said they continueto have hopefor the talks and for the planet.

Kenyan scientist David Obura has seen firsthand how changing ocean temperatures bleached previously pristine coral reefs in the Pacific Ocean. He also saw those reefs rebound after Pacific Islanders made them a protected area.

"Biodiversity loss is just a complicated way to say that the nature around us is declining," he said.

CBC News: The House48:30Hope for nature at Montreals COP15

The House travels to Montreal to talk with experts and decision makers at the COP15 biodiversity conference, including Kenyan coral reef scientist David Obura, former top COP negotiator Tim Hodges, academic and Amazon activist Alicia Guzmn Len, Indigenous biodiversity expert Tyson Atleo and Canadas Environment Minister Steven Guilbeault and Germany representative Jochen Flasbarth.

Obura told CBC Radio's The House that when it comes to some of the targets the conference aims to achieve, negotiators have to take into account the particular circumstances countries face.

Take the call for a "30 by 30" target of protecting 30 per cent of the world's land and marine areas by 2030. Obura said that's intended as a global target but it can't mean that all individual countries must protect 30 per cent of their territory.

Africa has a growing population and much of the continent is arid and not very productive agriculturally, he said. That makes it very hard for many African nations to turn large swaths of territory intoprotected areas, he added.

At the same time, he said, wealthy nations have made a lot of money from extracting resources from Asia and Africa commercial activity that has played a large role in biodiversity decline.

"If you want us now to be involved in protecting what's remaining, which means giving up certain things on our side, show us the money. It's as simple as that," he said.

Ecuadorian activist Alicia Guzmn Len points out that her country leads the chronic malnutrition index. The Amazon program director for Stand.earth said it's not realistic for wealthy countries to demand that countries like hers prioritize creating and paying for new protected areas.

In the early hours of Wednesday, a group of developing nations frustrated over how the discussions were progressing walked out of the talks.

Still, both Guzmn Len and Oburasaid they remain hopeful.

"Each year that we have, we can turn towards a better trajectory," said Obura. "We just should have done it 10 or 20 years ago or 30 years ago.

"I'm not an optimist or pessimist, just a realist. I have a kid. So, you know, we have to try and make it work."

Walkout prompts wealthycountries to put up more money

Canadian Tim Hodges is a veteran of these major gatherings. He co-chaired the last big negotiation under the Convention on Biological Diversity.

"It's really about developed countries versus developing countries," said Hodges, describing the major tensions underlying the current talks.

"While we're talking about biodiversity, really the dynamic below the surface is about power, is about influence, it's about money and it's about benefits."

He cautioned that the mid-week walkout shouldn't be seen as a sign talks will fail.

The walkout led wealthier countries to put more money on the table, U.K.'s Minister for International Environment and Climate Zac Goldsmith told CBC's The Current.

Goldsmith described it as "almost a doubling of previous commitments."

Canada, which alreadyhad announced $350 million to support biodiversity projects in developing countries at the start of the conference, announced an additional $255 million on Friday.

WATCH | Home stretch of negotiations at COP15:

Pledging additional funds can be a difficult choice for some wealthier countries, said Jochen Flasbarth, the state secretary for Germany's Ministry of Economic Cooperation and Development.

While states from around the world are finally recognizing the need for action on biodiversity preservation, this year's COP comes at a moment when rich countries are struggling with a rash of crises that have drawn resources from their reserves.

"In the so-called donor countries, budgets are highly under pressure. We are in an extremely difficult world situation, with multiple crises after COVID [and] now the Russian war against Ukraine. All of this affects countries,and all of this needs the solidarity of the north," he said.

"So it's not a fortunate situation to solve this, but still we have to do it."

Flasbarth also stressed that money is only part of the solution.

"I think we should also look at what do we want to achieve in the substance. For example, the way we are doing agriculture and forestry and fisheries around the world is not sustainable and it's affecting biodiversity," he said.

"Yes, we need some money to transform these sectors into more sustainable and biodiversity-friendly practices, but it's also about what countries can do at home to regulate this. It's not all about money."

Hodges said that what matters isn't simply getting to a deal, but getting to a deal that works.

"The question for me is, do we actually get an agreement that's full of substance and real commitment that makes countries and people behave differently and get a different record?" he said. "Or were you just going to make empty promises and not meet those commitments?"