McCartney used by groups, Williams says

Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams took on ex-Beatle Paul McCartney and his wife during a heated debate Friday night over the Canadian seal hunt, accusing the high-profile couple of being misinformed and used by some animal rights groups.

"My concern here is that the McCartneys are not completely informed," Williams said during the debate aired on CNN's Larry King Live.

• FROM MARCH 3, 2006: Williams, McCartney to talk seals on Larry King show

McCartney, who with his wife Heather Mills McCartney visited seal pups in the Gulf of St. Lawrence Thursday, has joined a tradition of international celebrities seeking to stop the harp seal hunt.

Paul McCartney attracted international attention with his visit this week to see seal pups off the Magdalen Islands. (CP Photo/Tom Hanson)

They have called the hunt inhumane and a stain on Canada's reputation.

Williams, who appeared on the last half of the broadcast, immediately challenged Mills McCartney's assertion that most seals are clubbed. In fact, Williams said, 90 per cent are killed by bullet.

He said the hunt is carried out humanely, and that that it is supported by scientists, veterinarians and organizations like the UN and the World Wildlife Fund.

Williams argued that the seal population has tripled from two million to 5.8 million. He said if that is allowed to continue the "inhumane consequence of that is that these seals will starve."

• FROM CBC ARCHIVES: Pelts, Pups and Protest: The Atlantic Seal Hunt

Mills McCartney interjected to say that it's completely normal for there to be millions of seals.

McCartney said that in the 1950s and 1960s, there was an overculling of the seal population where they dropped to a dangerously low level. Over the last three years, he said, that level of killing is happening again.

"Even though at this moment in time there may be enough seals, the population could drop in the same way as it did in the 50s and 60s," McCartney said.

Williams said only three per cent of the seals have been taken.

Danny Williams

The McCartneys spoke to host Larry King from a studio in Charlottetown. Williams was taped at a CBC Television studio in St. John's.

The most heated exchanges occurred between Mills and Williams.

When King asked Mills McCartney to respond on the number of seals actually killed by bullets, she replied : "It's just not true. It's complete and absolute rubbish."

Williams repeated that Mills McCartney was incorrect. "I have to set the record straight. I live here and I actually know."

• DEPARTMENT OF FISHERIES & OCEANS: Seal Hunt: Myths and Realities

Video of seals being clubbed to death during past hunts was shown several times during the show.

Williams rejected McCartney's premise that no reasonable person who saw footage of the hunt would say it is humane.

Williams said if you go into any slaughterhouse and put white sheets on the floor, "then you're going to see blood. And that's not nice and that's not pleasant."

• FROM MARCH 3, 2006: Visit outports, not just pups, sealer tells McCartney

Williams went on to say that the couple is being used by organizations like the IFAW, Greenpeace and PETA who raise hundreds of millions of dollars. He added that the FBI has terrorist files on these groups.

But Mills McCartney slammed Williams for going off on a tangent.

"Why are you not sticking to the seal hunt? The fact that it's used for fashion, the fact that they are inhumanely killed," she said.

"Why don't you stick to the subject. You're such a politician. You keep going off on irrelevant things."

"This is about propaganda," Williams responded. "This is about using superstars like your husband."

The McCartneys' visit was arranged by the Humane Society of the United States, which said the pop star's involvement attracted enormous media attention around the world.

• EXTERNAL SITE: Humane Society of the United States

After the debate, Williams said he felt he made inroads.

"They seemed to get defensive at times which I think was good from our perspective because it showed that we were making our points," said Williams, who called being asked to appear on the show a "golden opportunity" to address millions of people.

Peter Ralph, a St. John's lawyer who watched the debate in a pub, thought the program was skewed in the McCartneys' favour, as Williams was not invited to speak for half the show.

"It seemed like it was a set up for Humane Society propaganda, and Larry King was useless. The point wasn't to have a good debate, obviously," Ralph said.

Another patron, Gerry Heffernan, said that in the end there was no clear winner.

"I don't know who actually won the debate," said pub patron Gerry Heffernan. "[But] I think that Danny held his own with the superstars."

The CNN appearance was the talk of Newfoundland and Labrador on Friday.

"I guess when you put a Paul McCartney into the mix, it's all about theatre to some degree," resident Rob Dunphy said before the telecast. "Danny has a chance to take that and make it work in our favour for a change."

"It's going to bring a lot of international attention. It's going to be great for the province and to tell our side of the story for once," said Steve Webb in St. John's.