Thunder Bay police officers take the stand in J.P. Levesque trial

Thunder Bay's former deputy police chief Andy Hay spent part of Tuesday on the witness stand in the trial for police chief J.P. Levesque.

Levesque is charged with breach of trust and obstruction of justice.

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Another five Thunder Bay police officers are expected to testify Wednesday in the trial, including acting police chief Sylvie Hauth, inspector Don Lewis, and officers Jeff Elvish, Sue Kucharik and Karen Kerr.

Under examination, Hay spoke on Tuesday of how he was aware of the links between the charges against Sandy Zaitzeff, a prominent Thunder Bay lawyer, and mayor Keith Hobbs, and how the RCMP first approached Thunder Bay police to discuss allegations of extortion involving Hobbs.

Hay testified that after being told about the issue on December 14, 2016, he, along with Levesque, had a meeting with Thunder Bay city manager Norm Gale. Hay said Gale was upset with the extortion allegation.

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He said it was not surprising the city manager would be made aware of the investigation, as it was, a "unique situation," and that city hall would need to assess the issue.

Hay said the Zaitzeff and Hobbs investigations involved a "cast of characters" with "issues to manage."

Hay testified that Gale made police aware that Hobbs had gone to the city solicitor with a prepared document regarding a number of allegations about Sandy Zaitzeff. There is no indication as towhat happened with that document.

Hay also testified that the RCMP specifically Staff Sgt. Normand Roy were adamant that they not deal with this specific case. Hay suggested that, at the December 14 meeting, the suggestion was immediately made to transfer the case to the OPP after Thunder Bay police made its own assessment of the case.

Hay said this was because some officers get "emotionally attached" to a particular case, adding that that Ron Miller, one of the investigating officers with the RCMP, fell into that category.

Hay testified he was surprised the RCMP were conducting an extortion investigation in Thunder Bay, as that was not their jurisdiction. Hay said he was also surprised that the RCMP even started to create a report.

Hay said he wanted his own officer, inspector Don Lewis, to look over the case before referring to the OPP, and also to determine if there was enough merit to move the case forward.

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Hay also established that the Thunder Bay police would often let the police services board chair know about any major charges or investigations so the board would be familiar with some major operations. It was partially to allow the board to deal with media issues.

Levesque's reputation

Hay spoke at length during cross-examination about the reputation of Levesque. He described the chief as a person with high morals and high standards, which were known across the province.

Hay said Levesque would have been the president of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police, if it were not for the current charges.

Defence counsel BrianGoversuggested to Hay that Levesque approached him at his retirement party, at Hay's home on December 21.Goversuggested that Levesque tried to tell Hay that he had spoken to Hobbs about the extortion investigation.

"It had to be done J.P.," was the suggested response Hay made to Levesque, although Hay testified he did not recall making the statement.

Hay admitted it was a busy evening but thought he would remember such a conversation.

Hay said on the stand that, at times, police officers would have to disclose information to solve crimes and perhaps confront a suspect in a case at the risk of them interfering with an investigation. Hay said it would be a calculated risk.

"[Levesque] thinks about it well before he does it," said Hay. "[He] doesn't act impulsively."

"He's the most honest and moral person I know."

Hobbs' relationship with force

The relationship between Keith Hobbs and the Thunder Bay police was also examined in detail in court. The defence clearly established there was an adversarial relationship between Hobbs and the administration of the service, with Hay saying he remembered "all too well" the lawsuit and "bad blood" between Hobbs and former police chief Bob Herman.

Hay said he and Levesque were viewed as allies to Herman, who appointed them to their roles.

The relationship between Hay, Hobbs and Levesque was"professional, polite, respectful" according to Hay, but "guarded." He testified he was unaware of any personal friendship or relationship between Levesque and Hobbs, or that there was any kindof communication that would have lead toLevesque givingHobbs a heads-up to any investigation.

Hay saidHobbs was "not a confidant" to the police service, although he admitted he would have had many friends and co-workers still on the force, while he was mayor.

The trial continues Wednesday morning.